Welcome back to the Discount Property Investor podcast. Our mission is to share what we have learned from our experience and the experience of others to help you make more money investing like a pro. We want to teach you how to create wealth by investing in real estate, the discount property investor way. To jumpstart your real estate investing career, visit freewholesalecourse.com, the most complete free course on wholesaling real estate ever. Thanks for tuning in.

David: Alright guys, welcome back to the discount property investor podcast. I am your host David Dodge and today I have a good friend coming on the show today to talk about his brand new book. Welcome Mister Josh Culler. Josh, welcome.

Josh: Hey, what's going on man? I'm excited to be on the show here.

David: Hey, I'm excited to have you brother. So I've known Josh for probably about 2 years now, give or take, and Josh has some amazing stuff to share with us today. So Josh is all about marketing, he's all about content creation and he has a couple products that I've used in the past that have been phenomenal to help me put out some really good pieces of content and do some video editing and he's even made me some intros and outros to some of my YouTube videos on my YouTube channel and he just really knows marketing very very very well. Now, the type of marketing that Josh is specific to is a little different than what we typically talk about on this show, right? So we're typically talking about marketing to sellers, right? We're talking about direct to seller marketing because we're real estate investors here on the discount property investor podcast, right? We love teaching you guys how to wholesale deals, how to buy right so you can fix and flip, you know, how to get into those rentals, how to do the BRRRR method, all of these things, right? Josh likes to specialize in a little different type of marketing and it's really more about you or me, right? Or about the investor and how to use the marketing to build your own network and you know, lots of these other things, so Josh, again, thanks for coming on today. Tell us a little bit about yourself bud.

Josh: Yeah. Well, I'm glad to be here today and I'm excited to share some things with your audience. Think it's going to be a lot of fun. I always love hanging out with you and talking with you and so yeah, I am Josh Culler, I own a few businesses, Culler Media is our core business where we do content marketing primarily for real estate influencers, those people who are kind of like Dave, you know, they've got their education, they've got masterminds coaching courses, all kinds of, you know educational type stuff. So we work primarily with the influencers and then we also do work with active real estate investors, so we do you know, like marketing consultations and then we also serviced a couple sides of Dave has actually used REI.video was the platform where you can film your own video content, send out raw video content over to REI.video the platform. You placed an order, we'll edit, produce it, do all the heavy lifting and then send it back to you and then I've also got a podcast called the REI marketing weekly which is one that Dave has been on as well, and so that's primarily it and you know I've been in the real estate investing industry now going on nine years so it's been quite a while and I've been in and around the marketing genre the entire time. Worked with, you know, a couple of guys like Gary Harper, he is somebody that I worked with very closely. I actually worked for him as a marketing director in a massive wholesaling company and so, you know, got a lot of different experiences within marketing, you know, back when we first started in this nine years ago, nobody was doing text blasting or cold calling or you know, everybody was doing direct mail, everybody was doing bandit signs but a lot of people were doing mainly dispositions marketing cuz you could snap your fingers and get a deal from a hud so very, very little acquisitions marketing in that. I remember it kind of turning on its side right around 2015, 2016 is when we started having to market direct to sellers and so we had to make that pivot, but been through a lot of different things, not the 08 crash but different market cycles, you know. It's kind of crazy so that's a little bit of my history I guess.

David: I love it. Josh again, thanks for coming on. Guys, check out Josh's podcast 'REI marketing weekly'. I've actually been on the podcast, he has a great show. He brings on some of the basically the industry's best investors to talk about, you know, marketing and then Josh has a brand new book that he just released and it's called the REI marketing book. I said that right, correct?

Josh: Yeah, that's it man.

David: Got it.

Josh: That's very keyword specific, that's it.

David: Keyword specific, I love it. REI marketing book, right? And this is really the go to guide on running your marketing in your real estate investing business and you break down all kinds of great stuff in this book so if you guys are interested in checking out the book, you can find that at REImarketingbook.com, so he's got the book, he's got the podcast, he's got a business that helps investors with the editing and production, copywriting, even distribution of their content, of their videos as well, so Josh has got his hands in all kinds of stuff but today I really wanted to talk about this brand new book Josh. You just released this maybe, I don't know, maybe two months ago, if that, like it's brand new.

Josh: Yeah, as of the recording right now, it's still in pre-order but depending on when this goes out, we're looking to ship right around the third or fourth week of March so yeah, it's gonna get there.

David: Okay, cool. Yeah, this will probably take about maybe 1 to 2 weeks for us to get it up and live but yeah right about the time that you're getting out of the pre-order stage, this will be hitting but even if you listen to this and you're still in the pre-order, guys check it out, REImarketingbook.com. Josh, you are always really good at getting really simple easy to remember domain names so I got to credit you with that brother.

Josh: Yeah, that's all- that's what it's all about man. It's like if people can't- if people can't find you, they have trouble typing in stuff, I tell real estate investors this all the time, like don't make your domain name something that's like way too specific. Try to make it as general as possible so that people can remember it and go directly to the website. I mean that's like, that's the name of the game, you know I named the podcast to REI marketing weekly, the book is the REI marketing book, so then REI.video, I mean, you got to be keyword specific. It certainly does help out.

David: You got to be keyword specific. I love it, man. I love it. Is my mic okay? It's kind of cutting in and out over here.

Josh: Yeah, no you sound good, you sound good.

David: Cool, cool, awesome. Well Josh, give us a little bit of information about you know, why did you write the book for one? I want to start with that. Why did you write it? And then two, let's break down, you know, what are some of the principles? What are some of the things that you teach in the book that is going to benefit people, right? Why would somebody want this book?

Josh: Yeah, for sure so first of all, I appreciate you bringing me on to talk about this and I want to definitely deliver a lot of value and not just, you know, like talk about- talk about and promote the book the entire time, like we're going to talk about some value as well so we're actually- right now, it's been in pre-order stage for about 5 weeks and we're approaching about 500 pre-orders so that's doing pretty well.

David: Great. Fantastic.

Josh: We want to crack 1000 so hopefully the audience here can help out with that. And so I got the book right here, it's very simply put. I mean, I'm not sure if my camera will focus in on that.

David: There we go.

Josh: There we go. So it's actually 210 pages, I've had a lot of people ask like is it just a booklet or like a mini book? Like this is a jam packed full book. I mean, I mailed you a copy so you have [inaudible].

David: Oh yeah. It's a big- it's a nice book man. I love- I love it. It's not a booklet, it's not a pamphlet, this is a book. That's right.

Josh: This is a book, yeah for sure. So basically, here's the thing Dave is that the truth of the matter is the only thing that Josh Culler wrote in the entire book was the dedication page that is it.

David: Okay.

Josh: And so like what I did was- and this is where content savviness comes in, right?

David: Okay.

Josh: I have a- if you want me to, I could share how this book was created.

David: I would love to hear it cuz I'll- and I'll tell you how we did ours as well too, but I want to hear it. I love it.

Josh: It might be similar and I know that, you know, a lot of people listening right now, they are active real estate investors, they're not an influencer of any kind, but listen up because this still is relevant to you in order to get written content out there, cuz written content is what drives a lot of the organic traffic from a SEO standpoint on your websites and so you might be able to leverage this kind of a strategy as well. Basically, we went with the Tim Ferris model, the Tim Ferris model is, if you know his books the tools of Titans and tribe of mentors, basically all it is is he's got a show, a podcast and he got the podcast transcribed, cleaned up the content and the transcription, had a writer go in organize the content and then put it into a book, and that's a literally all this is and so the book is divided up into, I believe it's eight chapters, I'm pretty certain, let me go to the table of contents here and so like the first chapter is marketing foundations, and inside of this there's just all kinds of different stuff, you know, the first, I think the first part's like John Martinez talking about the sales and marketing relationship. We've got [inaudible] talking about being comfortable on camera. We got Max Keller talking about the motive behind marketing and Steve Train talking about keeping your marketing lean and mean, and so that's kind of how it's broken down and so everybody's- all the contributors that are in here came from the podcast and so you're in this book talking about like we took your little concept of the hunting versus fishing marketing, we put that in here.

David: You like that? That's a good concept, is it not?

Josh: I use it all the time man.

David: Good.

Josh: I 100% of the time give you credit.

David: Cool, cool. I didn't come up with that, somebody taught me that too, bro so if you're going to give me credit, I'll take it though, I'll take it.

Josh: I learned it from you.

David: That's right.

Josh: Yeah so basically, you know, we had this podcast and we got the first 37 episodes, we got them broken down transcribed, had a writer go in clean the transcriptions up, make it readable and then have another writer go and organize the content and the specific topics and then you get a 200-page book.  So we are going to do this book annually, we're going to have one book a year that's doing this and it's probably going to go up to 50 contributors instead of 37, I don't know why I went with 37 but I did, and so there's going to be 50 contributors in the next book and that'll probably end up being a 300 page book. It's going to be really good and so there's literally just a whole bunch- it's chock-full of all kinds of, you know, information about the tactics, the strategies, the different concepts and the approaches to marketing that'd be, you know, some of the best real estate investors in the world take advantage of and one of the things I talk about Dave in this book is- so in my introduction, I actually did write the introduction as well. So the introduction and the dedication are the only things that I wrote, and so in the introduction, I make a point of, you know, you're going to hear and read about hundreds of different marketing strategies inside this book, that doesn't mean you have to do them all.

David: Yeah, that's a great-

Josh: That's the thing I'm trying to get across to people. There's a lot of stuff in here man, a lot of nuggets. Like we made sure that this was jam packed full and then when you dig into it, you'll see that to be true and so I'd tell- like any introduction, I literally tell people like list out, make a list of everything that you learned in the book that you take away from it and then keep till combined. Make a priority of the top five things that you need to do right now inside the marketing, whether that's a big item or a small item because the worst thing in the world that you can do in marketing is try to do everything at once cuz then you just become scatter brained and then you have no idea what sticks and what doesn't stick, what you need to cut off that, you know, a certain point or what you need to keep pouring fuel on the fire with and so that's one of the things I would tell you is like if you're going to go in this book, there's going to be an insane amount of stuff in this but prioritize. Take a list of maybe 5, 3 to 5 things and just do those, perfect them then move on to another 3 to 5, then move on to another 3 to 5 and just carry on from there. So, that's really the rundown man, it's pretty simple like there's a lot of awesome stuff in gear and I'm excited. This turned out a lot better than I thought it was going to. It was a little bit of a process, but we got it ironed out so I'm excited about you know, this book obviously going out but the next one's going to be a banger too.

David: Hell yeah man. Hey do me a favor, give me the- there's about eight chapters. Give me the chapter titles just so we can kind of briefly talk about each of these real quick. So real quick before you do that though Josh, I did the same thing. I have three books now, really it's two full books and then one of them is kind of more like a booklet like we talked about a second ago and all three of those were done the exact same way. We started out with a title, that's where we started, right? A title, number one and then we built an outline and that outline may consisted anywhere from, you know, 10, to 30 topics, right? And then we would go do a podcast, my partner Mike and I or even- it sounds like yours was, you know, even you know, just people that you had interviewed, right?

Josh: Yes, yes.

David: Doesn't matter, doesn't matter. So we did those podcasts and then we transcribed them all which is awesome because we have a website that hosts the podcast and all the show notes as well as the transcriptions which if you guys aren't doing, that's one gold nugget that I could tell you right now. I know Josh has it over at Cullermedia.com/podcast. He's got all of his information over there. We have all of ours over on discountpropertyinvestor.com so there's a page that has a podcast, it's the blog basically, but every time we do a podcast, we transcribe it and we add it on to the website cuz then you get all this keywords and you get all this SEO and this what I like to refer as the Google juice that helps to drive the traffic and then what we did is we take the transcriptions, we send them over to a editor who then edits those transcriptions and kind of puts them into paragraph form. So I'm the same way, I didn't really sit down and write anything on the book but at the same time, all of it was from me and my partner, Mike, it's our spoken word, right? So, the editor would take the transcriptions and put those into paragraph form and then kind of rearrange them to make it work and then he would send it back to us and we would literally read it once or twice and edit it as we went and then boom, it was done, just like that so phenomenal way to go about writing a book. So, didn't mean to interrupt you Josh.

Josh: It's so efficient man, no, it's so efficient. I loved it, it was a great experience cuz it took very little of my time to do it.

David: Same thing man, same thing. Alright cool, chapter- let's talk about the different chapters here. What are you guys talking about in here?

Josh: Yeah, for sure. So I'm not sure if we're going to keep to the same theme for every book, we might, I'm not sure, depends on how the content rolls out I guess but the first chapter is the marketing foundations, like literally some of the guys talking about concepts of marketing. Like I said, one of the first sections is John Martinez talking about the sales- the relationship between sales and marketing inside of like your real estate business, and so it's like stuff like that that you're going to be, you know, approaching. Chapter 2 is going to be interruption marketing. That's going to be more of your like text blasting, cold calling, RVM's, stuff like that.

David: Never referred- heard it referred to as interruption marketing but I really like that.

Josh: Yeah, it's basically what's happening is you're interrupting a pattern in which, you know, your marketing to somebody. Take for instance, like Facebook ads is technically interruption marketing too because somebody is scrolling on their feed and then all of a sudden they're interrupted by an ad and you know, think of it that way, you know, it's like they're in a motion doing something so if somebody is, you know, say they're on their phone and then they get a text message, well you just interrupted their day because now they got to check their text message and, you know, that's kind of the approach to it but that's kind of conceptually what it's all about but we break that down a little bit deeper from what other people are doing in their interruption marketing techniques, you know. So that's that. Chapter 3 is going to be all about video marketing so we dive deep into video marketing really hard core, that's a really good one. Four is branding, so chapter 4 is branding and yes, we talk about branding in a sense of like logos, colors and all that kind of stuff but if you ever- if you guys ever like follow me or anything and hear the things I talk about, I talk about branding as not just logos and colors, that's- to me, there's three things that break down into branding: number one, it's- so if you look at 100% of a brand, 25% is logos, colors, design, stuff like that. 25% is sales and marketing, 50% is customer experience. That's what I break it down to and so we encompass all of those things inside of that chapter, branding is not just about logos and colors so don't disengage. I know a lot of real estate investors that are like yeah I just got my logo on Fiverr and stuff like that. Hey, that's cool and that works but we're going to talk about branding in a sense of going deeper into it. Five is sales and marketing, so kind of like the cross between the two, I know that we have John Martinez talk about that in chapter one but also gives another breakdown of it inside of that, chapter 5. I think that's really important because a lot of real estate investors are very sales heavy seems like so they don't do a whole lot of marketing, they do a whole lot of sales-type stuff and they go deep into that. Sixth is advertising so we're going to talk about advertising and that's a lot of different things in a sense of like you know, direct mail and we're going to talk about Facebook ads, PPC, stuff like that, you know, Jeff Rappaport and Rebecca Johnson like those guys just break down PPC pretty good in this one. Seven is data and analysis so that's going to be the last chapter. Chapter eight's gonna be like bios and resources and stuff like that, so technically the last chapter is data and analysis and so analyzing the data of your marketing like where- we're talking about skip tracing and lead stacking and a sense of data as well, but then analyzing like how- you know, budgeting and then you know, making sure you're tracking the numbers in your marketing and stuff like that because that's important and I ended it with that chapter very strategically because, you know, like I said, there's a lot of things that you're going to be getting between chapter 1 and 6, and now you got to make sure that you're tracking all of it and so we cap it off with that one in the last chapter so that's the seven chapters man. It's pretty foundational but I think, you know, there's a lot of gold nuggets inside of each one of these.

David: Well, there- yeah, I mean for a 200 plus page book guys, I mean, this is the real deal you know. It's not a booklet, this is a full book. It's gonna probably take you, you know, 4, 5 hours to get through this entire book. The fact that you have it, you know, basically in you know, into 7, 8 chapters, I think is phenomenal because you guys are breaking down you know, basically the fundamentals of each of these different things that are very, very important, you know, to ones business. So REI marketing book, is this book more so for the individual that is looking to get into becoming a real estate investor or is it more for the individual that's already a real estate investor that wants to take it to the next level or both?

Josh: I- ideally- this is a good question. I haven't been asked this yet, but I- this is something I have thought deeply about, right? Cuz I want to make sure that, like I told you that it's not a secret, this is a marketing tool for me. I made it, like you were asking me earlier if it's going to be on Amazon, guys it will be on Amazon, but that's not where I want you to go. I purposefully made the price on Amazon $25 and then on my website, it's 4.95 because I want your data, right? So I want you to pre-order the book or order the book when it's published and then I get your data so I can market to you later on, right? So now you're in my funnel and that's kind of the whole purpose for it.

David: That is the whole purpose. That's the beautiful thing guys. This is a marketing book and Josh is basically giving it to you guys at what is that? Like one fifth the price?

Josh: Yeah.

David: Because this is a marketing tool for him, right? You can learn a ton but at the same time, this is a tool for him, right? So I love it, man. This is a phenomenal, that's awesome and by the way- go ahead.

Josh: Go ahead.

David: No, please.

Josh: No no, you go ahead.

David: I was just going to say by the way 4.95, that is like a phenomenally- that is crazy cheap because, you know, not only are you having to purchase the book but then you have to ship it too. So you mean, you might even be losing a few cents here by selling it at that low of a price Josh. That's amazing man.

Josh: Yeah, and here's the thing: I look at it too is like that it's- I'm actually- if you really break it down, so I- I think if you break it down, like I lose about a dollar a book, a dollar [inaudible].

David: I was jus going to say because I know cuz I have books and I've shipped them to people and it's expensive. Yes sir.

Josh: Here's the thing: most people that are going to be running- like I run Facebook ads to build my email list and stuff like that. I've got to pay a lot more money in order to get those leads into my funnel as opposed to getting this and this is timeless. Somebody's going to buy this book, they're going to leave it on your desk and now they've got my branding on their desk for however long to keep- like people don't throw books away, right?

David: Right. Yeah, that's so true. People do not throw books away, I love that. I never even thought of that.

Josh: Yeah, and I don't have to pay for those leads essentially, like those leads are maybe costing me a dollar or $0.05 per lead that's in my funnel and that's just lasting and so I'm okay, especially because I know somebody that picks this book up is going to be 100% in my target demographic, right? So that's like 100% like directed towards people that I want to market to, right? And I want people that are in my funnel and so that's like a pure vetting way to get- to make sure that the people that are on my list are ideal customers of mine. And so that kind of leads me into the question you asked and ideally this book is meant for people that are kind of in it, you know, they're- they've done a few deals, there are a lot of advanced techniques inside of here, a lot of you know, when you get like something like a Steve Train or a John Martinez or you know, yourself or you know, somebody else that's like really way up there. There's some advanced stuff that's in here, but that's why I prefaced inside the book, like take it one at a time.

David: Take it one at a time, right.

Josh: But if you're just getting into real estate, if you've maybe haven't done any deals, maybe you've done a handful, one or two or three. This is going to be really excellent for you because now you'll be able to dig into the minds of the people that are at the level that maybe you want to get to and you want to achieve and so I just caution those people, those of you who are new to real estate investing like I said, just be careful. Don't try to implement everything at once, pick three to five things that you can do right now, prioritize them and go hard at those, perfect them and then move on to the next ones but that's what I would say man, it's like- and people that are- it's for all levels, you know, of real estate investors but at the same time, like you got to pick and choose what you do. It's the same- it's the same thing of any other way that you learn, right? If you go to a mastermind, there's always going to be people that you know, hopefully you're in a mastermind that people are above you and people that are you know, way ahead of you are and then even people below you and right at your level so there's value at every level and so that's kind of the approach here in this book as well.

David: Man I love it. Josh, this is phenomenal. So again, marketing and foundations is what you talk about in the first chapter then you guys jump into the interruption marketing, you guys touch on the video marketing, you touch on branding, you guys talk about the sales and the marketing cuz that's a whole different aspect. Then you talk about advertising and different ways to go by advertising yourself and your business and your services and then data and analysis which I think is, you know, something that is often overlooked you know, people start doing all these things but they're not really like keeping track of where their leads are coming from and what their spends are on these certain campaigns and you know, where are you getting the highest return on your investment or even the highest return on your time? which a lot of people discount. They always think of their investment as just a monetary thing, well you know, that's crazy but if you're spending 30 hours a week, that's investing, that's time invested, right? So you have to definitely dive in deep on these numbers with your data and analysis and then last but not least, you ended up with some resources. I am excited, you mailed me a copy of the book and it's literally- I'm at home right now but it's sitting on my desk at work and I can't wait to dive into this and I'm sure that you're going to teach me a couple things in this book that I don't already know after 15 years of being a real estate investor. I'm positive there's a couple gold nuggets in there even for me, so guys check it out: REImarketingbook.com. You can go over there, you can purchase this for $4.95 and Josh just told us he's like losing a dollar on this, right? That's what the cost to print it and get it mailed to you, you're actually going to be getting a phenomenal deal and if you want to go to Amazon, again that is an option but you're going to basically pay five times that amount. Again, we highly encourage you guys to go get that over at REImarketingbook.com. Last but not least guys, if you are interested in connecting with Josh, he has some really really cool products, REI.video is one that I personally used and he has a phenomenal product but basically you can film your own video, right? And you can send it over to Josh and his team and they will help with the editing, they will help with the- with anything that you essentially need to help increase your own brand and your own brand awareness in your- in your market. He's the man. So Josh, thanks again for coming on the show. How can people connect with you, is REI.video or Cullerrmedia.com probably the best places to connect with you directly or do you have a specific social media account that you want to plug or what do you got?

Josh: Yeah, for sure. I appreciate you allowing me to do that. So you can go to any of those websites, Cullermedia.com is kind of like the mothership for my- all my brands but I'm really going hard at Instagram and YouTube right now and then also the podcast, obviously. So podcast is REImarketingweekly.com and then Instagram is @thecontentninja and then YouTube is @thecontentninja as well, so YouTube I'm putting out a lot of stuff about content marketing and marketing as a whole as well. So go follow me on all those and if you- worst case scenario just go to Cullermedia.com and then it can- you can pick and redirect.

David: You can- that's like the mothership, kind of get you to show you all the different things that you got going on. I love it, Josh.

Josh: And Culler is spelled C-U-L-L-E-R so make sure you don't get that mixed up.

David: C-U-L-L-E-R Cullermedia.com. Hell yeah Josh, well give us some parting words for the day man. What's- what are some of the hottest things that people are doing right now to increase either their business marketing or even their brand- their individual brands awareness right now? What are some of the- some of the best things that people are doing to get the highest ROI on that time and/or money that they're spending?

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. So I actually- it's funny you ask. I was- as you were asking me that question, I was like racking my brain like there's so much that, you know, we talked about, cuz I get people like yourself on podcast and then I hear what they're doing and then obviously, you know, my clients, we've got about 26, 27 clients that we serviced and everything that we're- their doing. It depends on like the market and what direction you're going and whatnot but I'll tell this: the most underrated form of marketing is also the most timeless form of marketing. It's literally stood the test of time since the dinosaur age and that's referral marketing, is absolutely undervalued, underrated and I think that a lot of people miss out on the potential of what that could be and I think that goes along with networking as well. So a good buddy of mine and a client, Eric Brewer out of York Harrisburg Pennsylvania area. He was on my show this past week so I think that would be the last episode of February and he was talking about how he's kind of changing the game when it comes to approaching relationships and referrals with realtors. So, you know, most real estate investors, they- they've probably done some sort of a deal with a realtor or brokerage or something like that. He's going a whole hell of a lot deeper inside of it. Basically, what he's doing is he's- and go listen to show because he breaks down like extensively like literally to the nitty-gritty details , but basically what he's doing is he's partnering up with a local brokerage, one brokerage that's a large brokerage in his area and he is making them go out and do marketing for acquisitions because he was kind of breaking down the numbers and the amount of deals that were sold for sale by owner as compared to sold through a real estate agent was like- in his market was like a 20 to 1 ratio, like it was a massive difference.

David: Wow.

Josh: And so he's like why am I going so hard at trying to compete with other wholesalers and do the exact same marketing that they're doing as opposed to going where it's just a bigger pond and there's a whole lot more fish inside of a pod, right? And so he's going after that and building relationships and so he started going after that this past quarter on the end of the 2020 and so it looks like it's doing really, really well for him. And so I think that if people approach relationships and referral marketing a little bit differently and try to think about like, hey what are some things that I can do differently that my competition is not doing? I think a lot of people just- they just do the same stuff that everybody else in their markets doing and if you do the same thing that everybody else is doing, you're not different and it becomes a whole lot of- it becomes a different ball game now at that point because then you're competing with price, you're competing with speed, you're competing with a whole lot other things.

David: A whole lot of other stuff, yeah.

Josh: Yeah, and so if you approach it from a different angle and look at it differently and, you know, strategize from a standpoint of how can I do something different than the competition? Then you'll start getting deals locked in a whole lot more so [inaudible].

David: Josh, I can't agree with you more, literally, right? Referral marketing is the best marketing in my opinion. One, because you typically- your cost-per-lead is very low, if not zero, right? It's basically time commitment, not so much monetary commitment to build those relationships. One of my favorite things that I tell my students is don't keep your business a secret, right? Why on Earth would you ever want to keep your business a secret? By the way, the definition of business is very simple, it's the act of making money. That's it, that's what business means, right? So if you're trying to make money and you keep your business a secret and nobody knows that you're open for business, how in the hell do you expect to get clients or sell people anything, right? or make money? So referral marketing is massive, tell everybody what you do. If you're into buying houses to wholesale, tell the world, literally go on Facebook or your- whatever your social media is and once or twice a week, make a poster, a video about the fact that you are buying houses. If you're looking for rehabs or rentals, tell everybody you know, because then what happens is later down the road, somebody calls and they say hey, I know you've been buying houses forever and you know, this particular situation just happened, are you interested? So much so that the biggest deal that I'm working or have worked, it's in the middle of it right now, came from a referral and this is a deal that's going to make multiple six figures and I didn't spend 20 or 30 thousand dollars on direct mail or radio ads or Facebook or AdWords or any of these things that we can do to generate leads. It was brought to me because I'm constantly telling people hey I'm Dave, I'm buying houses and I'm excited to buy houses. I love doing it and if you have a property that you want to sell, call me, let me at least make an offer and guess what? If you don't like my offer, no hard feelings. Hopefully I can at least come out and tell you a little bit about what I think the home is worth and what the- you know, what the repairs are going to be and so on so forth and just provide some value to you. So what I'm getting at is referral marketing is the most underrated type of marketing, that's Josh's words, not mine and I 100% agree with that. So guys do not keep your business a secret. Josh, thanks again for coming on the show today. You always provide so much value and guys, go check out the book: REImarketingbook.com. It's less than five bucks on his website. You can always go to Amazon but you're going to pay 5 fold so again we highly recommend you go straight to his website and then last but not least, check out Culler media, that's C-U-L-L-E-R-M-E-D-I-A, Cullermedia.com and you can learn more about Josh's podcast: REI marketing weekly podcast as well as some of the products that he has to offer you guys over at REI.video. Josh, thanks again for coming on, it's always a pleasure connecting with you. You always teach me something brother, you're always teaching me something.

Josh: I appreciate you man. This has been fun, I love hanging out with you. We got to do it more often so appreciate you having me on brother.

David: You got it. Guys, thanks for listening. Until next time, signing off.

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