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David Dodge: Hey guys welcome back to another episode of the discount property investor podcast, I am your host David dodge and today I have a special guest David Richter. David is the author of "Profit First for Real Estate Investors" and I am very excited to have David on the show today to learn more about this book and really to learn more about David as the real estate investor as well. So David welcome to the show my man, how are you?

David Richter: I'm doing great, thanks for having me David. It's an honor to be here.

David Dodge: We're honored to have you on the show, we're really grateful to have your time and just to give the audience a little bit of information, David is an active real estate investor, he's been essential in closing over 850 deals over the last seven years. David you've been in the game about as long as I have, full time it sounds like. We're neck and neck my friend. Yeah this is including wholesale, turnkey, BRRRR which I love, so happy to have another BRRRR guy here.

David Richter: Yup.

David Dodge: Owner finance, rentals, lease options and other exit strategies that you can think of man. Same, love it. And while growing and building a real estate business from 5 deals a month to over 25 deals a month, he realized that as much money was coming in, it was going out at the same time right? So with the unique opportunity of being in every seat as a real estate investor he found a calling in the company's finance seat to help businesses see where their money really went or where it goes right, so David helps real estate investing companies at this point turn around and go from going out of business to building cash reserves by using the profit first cash flow system. So I mentioned he wrote "Profit First Real Estate Investors", a book recently and this book is a derivative of the original profit first by Mike Michalowicz and I really really like Mike, I love that book and Dave I've read yours and it's amazing. You guys both have really really great books.

David Richter: Awesome, thank you.

David Dodge: And Dave's goal is to completely transform the real estate investment industry when it comes to how real estate investors view their finances guys. He wants to bring investors true financial clarity and freedom and help every investor stop living deal to deal. Wow what an intro David.

David Richter: Yeah, I just need to take you with me everywhere.

David Dodge: You're the man brother, I love it. You got all kinds of cool stuff to tell us and teach us today and guys listen closely 'cause David is the real deal and he is going to give a lot of value on this episode today. So David what inspired you to write this book?

David Richter: Oh man, the fact that I saw so many investors making a lot of money but always being broke. That's really the core of it is I saw it in that business where we were doing 25, 30 deals a month, doing a ton of income but at the same time we weren't keeping anything. It's like money in, money out. But then I saw it all over the place too so that's where through a series of events I went through and helped like several investors really know where their money was and that I could go into the actual storage there but that's where I saw just if you know where your money is going, that's like the first big step of turning it all around and getting that real financial freedom. Then I read Profit First from the recommendation of a mentor, that blew my mind, I was like this is awesome, took 10 pages of notes, said this is a great framework. That's what got me started down this path because I saw that so many people hate the finances on the- in the entrepreneurial world and as the owners but at the same time we deal with cash and we deal with our money all the time, we just have no idea what to do with it. So that's kind of what got me kicked down this road and just like started was everyone is out there making money but they all feel broke.

David Dodge: -

David Richter: I think you're muted David, like on Zoom.

David Dodge: Ooh you were right. I was moving my desk around and organizing over here. Man I can't agree more David, I really can't. Especially if you're new, if you're new you know money comes in and money goes out and before you know it, you can get yourself into situations and it's not even necessarily for new people either.

David Richter: Right? No.

David Dodge: But before you know it, you got 30 grand coming in a month but you got 30 grand coming out a month, or in some cases 50 grand a month coming in coming out. And if you aren't managing that and you know, the title of the book "Profit First for Real Estate Investors" right? Or real estate investing, is it investing or investors?

David Richter: Investing but it's for the investors but yeah.

David Dodge: It's for the investors right, but one of the main things that this book has taught me, you've taught me as well as Mike has taught me in his book is you have to pull out you know money to pay yourself and you gotta do it first but you also need to have other accounts that you're funding either weekly, monthly, quarterly, I mean ideally weekly though right? Or weekly or biweekly, that you're funding for your taxes. I even instruct my students to have a separate account for marketing.

David Richter: Good.

David Dodge: I mean they do a deal, take 10%, stick it in that marketing account.

David Richter: Awesome.

David Dodge: You know and take a percentage and put it into that profit account, and then take a percentage and put it into that tax account right? And do that as the money comes in. And you know one of the things that this helps with is if you find yourself being short to pay your bills every month then you really need to take a second look at your expenses and this basically is something that you're gonna need to be monitoring weekly or monthly at a minimum right?

David Richter: Yup.

David Dodge: But if you're not putting money aside, what ends up happening is you always typically seem to have enough. But having enough to pay the bills doesn't mean you get paid, it doesn't mean that you've set aside money for taxes, it doesn't mean you've set aside money for marketing, it doesn't mean that you've set aside money for escrow if you're a landlord.

David Richter: Right.

David Dodge: And you're not having that included in your mortgages so you gotta basically start planning and you know what this kind of reminds me of in a way, it's really more of a of a theory that it reminds me of than the actual principle but like Dave Ramsey's envelope methods right?

David Richter: Yeah.

David Dodge: Where you get paid, you cash your check, you put it in cash and then you put the cash in the envelopes, right?

David Richter: Yup.

David Dodge: And I like that because essentially he's doing the same thing. He's allocating money day one to cover day 60 and 180 and 360 or whatever it may be, right? So man dive deeper on this for me Dave, I'm doing all the talking here brother.

David Richter: Right? Yeah. Here we go. So that's where I believe a lot of the books we read like "Rich dad, Poor dad" and "Richest man in Babylon" like a lot of the books mostly entrepreneurs read, they talk about this. They talk about pay yourself first or in the "Richest man in Babylon" it says "a portion of all I have is mine to keep", so we get that message a lot, beat into our heads from different sources or mastermind events. That's why "Profit First' to me took it a step further and said let's utilize your habits and create a system around it to pay yourself first because that's what the whole profit first methodology is, it's utilizing the wealth habits like the habits of wealthy people and instilling them inside of you and inside of your business. Why are so many people broke in business? Usually because they come from a broke background and they have no idea how to get out of that mindset or those habits of being broke. They're used to living paycheck to paycheck in their W2 job, they jump into real estate thinking this is gonna be the end all be all and then they make more money but they spend more money so they are in the same exact habits that they were in in their W2. So it's like we have to break that cycle and those habits and that's why when we first get into real estate investing and we first get into business, most people have that formula, that broken formula of sales minus expenses equals profit, meaning I make a sale, I pay everyone else and their mother and then if I have any leftover that'll be the profit that I take home but that's usually what we've been doing in our personal finances too. It's like we get income in, we spend it all and then maybe if there's some leftover I'll do something cool with it over here or you know like that's when I can retire, you know my retirement fund maybe like that's just an afterthought. So it's like we have those habits inside of us and that's where I s- profit first flips that whole formula on it's head. It says its sales minus profit equals expenses meaning I make a sale, I take that profit off the table first and pay myself and then the business has to live on the expenses that are leftover. So it's like it's trying to change the habits and the mindset versus you know like just putting a band aid there of like okay you know make sure you just save a little bit at the end of the year, it's like no this is not what's going to create a wealthy entrepreneur 'cause we didn't get into real estate investing- I don't think anyone did to create the cash eating monster that becomes their business.

David Dodge: No.

David Richter: You know like we did- that's not what we did.

David Dodge: Yeah no, we did not. No.

David Richter: No one does but we all feel that way.

David Dodge: Let's talk about that for a minute man. So like man you nailed that, right? So first and foremost you gotta break the cycle of the bad habits of paying everyone else and then what's leftover is the profit, like that's a mindset, that's a cycle, that's a habit, you gotta stop all those so I really wanna you know second that. Agree 100%. And the profits need to be paid first, that's how you break the cycle. So another thing you had mentioned is you know profit- I'm gonna reword what you said, tell me if I'm doing this right.

David Richter: Sure.

David Dodge: But profit does not equal income minus expenses typically for most people because the expenses don't end after you do that one equation.

David Richter: Right.

David Dodge: There's continuous amount of expenses right?

David Richter: Yup.

David Dodge: So yeah, so that's not profit.

David Richter: They're looking for this event and it's never coming, and it's like-

David Dodge: And it's never coming.

David Richter: -it's off in the future.

David Dodge: It's like when do the expenses stop?

David Richter: Hopefully. Right?

David Dodge: Cause the income only comes in every now and then right?

David Richter: Yeah.

David Dodge: When do these expenses stop so I can calculate this equation? And it's like those expenses don't stop, they keep coming.

David Richter: Yup.

David Dodge: Alright so how can- how can somebody be you know- how can- what would be your approach or your opinion or your advice to get somebody to better recognize their expenses? Cause this is something I could probably use some work on too, let's be honest.

David Richter: So I tell everyone when I speak or even in the book that you need to escape your rat race and how do you do that? You have to have that first goal. You have to even know what it takes to get out of your rat race. So I tell people get your rat race number, I call it in the book your need number. What do you need on a monthly basis to cover your expenses in your current lifestyle? Let's say you don't even make a change, you don't go on the cut you know, the cutting spree and cut everything out of your life like where are you right now? Most people don't even know that number or have not sat down because we're not the numbers people so we don't usually even want to look into that but it's like how much are you spending? Cause you could look at that and you're like oh my gosh I thought it was like 8K a month and it's like 24K a month you know or whatever it might be for you and it's like hey I need to sit down and say how much do I need? That's the first thing.

David Dodge: Yeah I think I think my number is probably somewhere around 7500 give or take.

David Richter: There you go.

David Dodge: You know.

David Richter: That's a good place to start.

David Dodge: Two mortgages and a car payment and food and insurance and you know all the bills roughly $7500 a month. Love it. Okay so start with the number that you need to live on.

David Richter: Exactly.

David Dodge: And this is really the minimum right? This is the least amount, basically how- if you know- what number would replace your job and you know you'd be able to live on. Not necessarily be rich or super wealthy or even necessarily happy but just what's the minimum?

David Richter: Right.

David Dodge: So start with that number, find that number. I love it 'cause I do this a lot. Okay so then what?? You got the number, mine is 7500.

David Richter: So find that number. So if you get that number, I would also get a second goal right away and what does that want number? So if that need number gets you out of your rat race and breaks some of that bondage inside of your mind and those barriers of like okay now I've got at least this coming in, my need number, what do you want out of the business? Is it 50- is it double that? Is it 15,000 a month or is it 50,000 a month? Like what do you- why did you get into business and where does that- where do you want that to take you in income or net worth or equity or whatever it might be for you, what is that that you want consistently coming in so that way you are happy with what your business has turned into because that's another goal too. Because if you set the need goal, that's a lot that's a lot better than what most people do, to get out of your rat race is like just having that first goal but if you say I want to do 15K a month for myself, you'll probably breakthrough that rat race number, that need number a whole lot faster if you're like I wanna get to 15K that's my first goal. It's like you know shoot for the stars, you'll at least hit the moon.

David Dodge: Love it man.

David Richter: You know it's like that's where getting that, that would be next. Then the next step from there is actually setting the system in place so once you know how to get out of your rat race like what number that will take, now we have to put the system into practicality you know into practical use here. Practicality where we put an actual like you were saying the actual accounts and setting all that up. So let's talk about that a little bit.

David Dodge: Sure.

David Richter: Because we as entrepreneurs probably, and I say probably like almost rolling my eyes, I know for a fact we like looking at our banks and our bank accounts online a whole lot more than like a QuickBooks or a financial statement or like you know some financial software like most people would- they have- you know like I have my phone right here. My phone has my apps for the bank, you know and for all the different banks I bank with and like I look at my bank accounts on a daily or you know bidaily basis on every other day or whatnot. That's where we need to leverage that, we need to leverage what we're doing as entrepreneurs. Like I don't need to teach you- I think everyone on here who would just completely shut me down if I said here's what you need to do, you need to go to your financial statements and pull up your- it's like no, I need you to do what you're already doing as an entrepreneur.

David Dodge: I love it.

David Richter: Pulling up your banks-

David Dodge: You're talking my language now buddy.

David Richter: You as an entrepreneur look at your bank accounts on a regular basis so like let's leverage that. One of the biggest mistakes all investors make including entrepreneurs in general- so if you feel like oh I'm alone in this, you're not alone in this- is that they have one big bank account where all money comes in, all money goes out, and it's just like tossing a cash salad like all the time like I have no idea what's going on but as money comes in, I'm throwing it out as fast as possible. That's a big mistake because number one, you don't know what's coming in or going out, you have no control over that. And then number two, you don't know if you could take any of that out for yourself. If you have one account, you don't know what's for yourself, for the IRS, you know to pay other people. If you have other people's money in there for rehab projects, it's like that gets real messy real fast if you have one big bank account.

David Dodge: Yeah it does and I've gotten myself into a bad situation.

David Richter: Yeah yeah.

David Dodge: With one account and a lot of money for a different reason, and then you go pull money out and then you realize that you needed it or you owed it to somebody else and yeah it's no fun doing it that way.

David Richter: No, no it's not. So that's where we have to make sure that we leverage like I was saying the habit you already have with looking at your bank accounts and we're gonna set up just like you said about Dave Ramsey and the envelope system, that's exactly what the practical steps of profit first are, only the modernized envelope system with bank accounts 'cause there's no way I want you getting a natural envelope and stuffing tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars in that envelope.

David Dodge: Yeah we gonna have 50,000 in that tax account.

David Richter: Right? Yeah exactly. Don't need this huge stack, it's like we're not breaking bad here.

David Dodge: Hey guys we need a bigger file cabinet.

David Richter: You know like with these suitcases of money, here's my suitcase for this account. No, what we're gonna do is to modernize envelope system and we're gonna open up different bank accounts and I call the first three that every entrepreneur under the sun including real estate investors that should open, I call them the golden trio 'cause I love the Harry Potter movies and the Star Wars and all these big epic sagas that have three main heroes that are always making sure the story ends on a happy note. You know like making sure good triumphs over evil, well your business that you're building and that David's helping you like make more money with his podcast of like interviewing different people that you know and like he's telling you the BRRR method and like how you're gonna make the money, well guess what? Your business and what you're doing with real estate is your epic saga, it is your Star Wars. You are the hero of that story so you need to make sure you have three main heroes helping you along your journey so that way it ends in a nice happy fashion where you ride off into the sunset and it's a great ending. So what are those three accounts? The first three accounts to open is the profit account, the owners compensation account, and the owners tax account. Those would be three accounts I would open up separately than your operational expense account that you already have set up that's been your one account where everything goes in and out of. I always get the question what is the difference between those three accounts? They sound like they're all for me the owner. Well ding ding ding you're a winner so there you go. It is all for the owner to make sure that you're being taken care of but the difference especially between profit and owners account: profit is the icing on the cake, that's the account where you start putting money inside of that account and we suggest every quarter you take up to 50% out of that account for whatever the heck you want. It is for your time, your blood, sweat, tears that you put into the business, this is the return on investment for you having a successful business. The other reason you could use that account is also to pay down bad debt. Any debt that's crushing you, use the profit account so like if you got credit card debt or whatever it might be, use that account to lower it so that way you can lower your blood pressure and sleep better at night like use that private account if you have that. The owners compensation account is for you the owner to get paid for the work you do in the business. You, especially when you first start out, are the number one employee. But I'll give you a secret too: even if you're down the road and you're actually not doing any of the physical work, the day to day work, you're still the best employee cause you're driving the business forward usually in bigger ways you know down the road so you should be compensated for that. I also call this account not just owners account but the get out of the rat race account. Like you start filling this account up on a regular basis with the $7500 David, you know this is where if you start filling that up monthly with $7500 then you know you are out of your rat race, you've gotten to your need number of what you need on a monthly basis. That's where it gets really fun, that's where I see clients eyes light up where they're like oh my gosh like I know how much I need and I just put three months in there of what I need so maybe I could give myself a raise or I'm out of the rat race or like I have a legit business that's paying for my expenses. So that's the fun account, that's the one like that can get you out of the rat race and I would pay yourself on a weekly or biweekly or monthly basis from that account. So that's how those two are different then the tax account is to make sure if you do owe Uncle Sam anything, that you're putting it in a different account so that way you're not touching it throughout the year so that way you can actually sleep well at night when it comes time to actually pay that bill and get it off your plate. Do the BRRRR method or keep properties and you can get that account down to really really low and not have to save a bunch in there but I would also suggest you still have that account just for anything that comes up especially if you do a crazy big deal and then you know, and then you still have to pay taxes. But that's the golden trio of accounts, those are for the owner. You, if you don't have profitability and you feel like why am I doing this? Why am I broke all the time? Why did I start my business? You're going to make a lot of your decisions from fear versus from your purpose of why you started it, meaning- so what does that mean? That means if a deal comes across your plate and it's a slim deal, you'll just grab at it even though it might make just a little bit of margin or profit or it might set you back, you're just like I have to have that next deal or I have to have everything closed, I have to do this or I'm going out of business. That is a dangerous place to be 'cause you know what you're acting like? You're acting like those motivated buyers and sellers that you talked to all the time. So like don't become the motivated seller in your own business because you don't know where your money is and where it's going. So that's where if you set up these accounts, it puts you on the right path, you start funding those accounts first when a sale comes in, that way you know okay I can start paying myself, I can start having profitability, I can start making sure that I'm taking care of so that way I can make sure the rest of the business is okay too.

David Dodge: Okay so you nailed it man. Profit account, owners compensation account, a tax account, those are the golden trio. The profit account you had mentioned you could take up to 50% out every quarter.

David Richter: Yep.

David Dodge: You can use it to pay down debt, I love it. The owners compensation account, this is you paying yourself for your time and hopefully down the road it's you paying yourself for your efforts not your time.

David Richter: Exactly.

David Dodge: Because that's the- that's what allows you to break free of trading time for money is by having that account funded basically right? Like you had said if you put two or three or four months you know of your minimum number in that account then like you know if you wanna take a four day weekend, you don't have to ask anybody.

David Richter: Right?

David Dodge: You can do anything you want right? Love it. Number 3 was the tax accountant and guys this is really just to have money on deck for the government when they come knocking asking for their money.

David Richter: Right.

David Dodge: So if you're paying annually, this accounts very very important. If you're paying quarterly, this account's still very important to have that money aside. If you're paying every other week, this account is just as important. You want to have that money set aside for the government from the profits of your deals or the profits of your business, the income that's you know net net net of course the way they calculate it but you wanna have that set aside so you're not having to dig into your own pocket or steal from your profit account or steal from your owners compensation account, I love it. So funding these you had mentioned as well David, fund these accounts first. I mean do you have a general like percentage or average that you stick in each of these three roughly?

David Richter: So that if you want the in depth, get the book. The book has it for if you've got an active selling company like the end goal is to sell the property or if you're the end goal is to hold the company, I have different percentages for those depending on the size of your business 'cause as the size changes, the percentages change. So it's like if you're just getting started out though, I know what it is from 0 to 250,000, so if you're right at the beginning stage it's 5% to profit, 50% to yourself to the owners, 15% to taxes and then the rest of it goes- that 30% goes to the operational expenses or the opex account. So that's a good goal to shoot for though. If you're already in real estate and your like those percentages sound nuts like I'm already spending 95% of everything that comes in, start where you are. If you have to start with 1% in those three accounts, the big thing that I want to get across is that it's the habits, it's the habit that we're forming not necessarily that you have to start off where healthy businesses start. Up to this point you haven't had this education, you haven't had anyone tell you like what are- what is a healthy business and what should the percentages be? Well now that you know, even if you have crazy out of control expenses, you can start with 1% of those other accounts and start where you are and then get consistently better from there, re-evaluate it every quarter like if it's really bad right now, can you do better over this next quarter and start allocating and transferring you know better percentages to those accounts that are for you? It's like start with where you are but it's more important that you start and get that habit in place.

David Dodge: Man I can't agree more. Absolutely it's- you know because 50% owner compensation to a lot of people that are just getting started in their business may seem you know crazy because they want to put it all back into marketing you know but other people that may be normal you know, so again start where you're at, I really want to emphasize that. You know in the profit account you have 5% you know and then you had 15 on taxes, I think both of those are great places to start but again guys start where you are.

David Richter: Right.

David Dodge: If you're brand new to the game, those would be great rules of thumbs or great metrics to you know strive for, right?

David Richter: And when you're starting, you- when you're starting you might not have to pay yourself 50% because you got a W2 job but the point is to start somewhere even if it's 1% of that account so you get into that habit so it's like just get that in place.

David Dodge: Yeah I love it man, I think that that's a great- that is a great approach. Okay so by doing- having these three additional accounts, the golden trio here and to fund these accounts first guys, this ultimately is going to change your habits and it's gonna start making you and I'm gonna circle back to what we talked about in the very beginning, this is going to allow you to start acting like wealthy people act like, people that own and operate successful businesses, right? Anybody can start a business, it doesn't mean you're gonna have success in it.

David Richter: Yeah.

David Dodge: Anybody can start flipping houses, it doesn't mean you're gonna make money doing it. Right? But the wealthy people, the successful business owners, and the successful real estate entrepreneurs, flippers, landlords, they are diligent about paying themselves first and creating this as a habit. So utilize the habits of wealthy people guys, this is exactly how you do it. So once you have these accounts set up David and you start funding these accounts, what's the next step or what's the next thing that you'd recommend somebody do?

David Richter: Try and get into a rhythm with them meaning if you're- if you're newer in real estate and you're maybe selling one a quarter or you know one a month or wherever you are right now, get into the habit of every time a deal closes, I put these into the different accounts by the percentages where I am right now and then consistently try and get better, but I would create a rhythm that works for you. In the original Profit First book he talks about like the 10th and 25th, you know and but in real estate we all know that closings happen whenever wherever, this is not just something that usually comes in you know on a consistent basis if you're doing wholesaling especially or fix and flip or anything where the selling is the end goal. If you have rentals it's easier because usually you're getting money- money should be coming in on a consistent basis from your tenants you know near around the first of the month or whenever it is that you collect their money, so that's where you get into the habit and the rhythms next of like okay money comes in, this is where it should go and that's when you know like when you're actually now from every deal that takes place, you're moving money to those accounts first. So that's what I would say is get into those rhythms and make the habits a reality.

David Dodge: Holy cow. David, appreciate you coming on. Guys you gotta- you gotta check out "Profit First for Real Estate Investing". David where can they go to get this book and learn more about you man?

David Richter: Sure, so we actually help people implement this with our business which is like another step there. If you're like that sounds like crazy nuts like I can't do all these bank accounts or I don't wanna set them up or I'm scared I'd screw it up, that's how we help implement profit first. If you go to simplecfosolutions.com, that's where you can actually go and get you know in touch with us, we've got a schedule a call button. If you actually go to simplecfosolutions.com/gift, it'll also send you some gifts, some tools. Some tools that you can use to implement right away and also my book as well, I do the first two audiobook chapters 'cause I know real estate investors love listening to the audio book, so if you go there, it gives you some of those things as well so you can actually start your journey like there's no reason not to start it and get there. So simple cfosolutions.com, I've got the book link there, I've also got our podcast which David was on recently so his episode is gonna be airing there on the Profit First REI podcast as well but that's how you can connect with me and with our team and you know if you want more info on the Profit First, just hold methodology and mindset.

David Dodge: I love it. David thank you so much for coming on today. Guys David Richter with Profit First for Real Estate Investing, check him out, go directly to his website simplecfosolutions.com or go to simplecfosolutions.com and add the /gift for a freebie and Dave's got a really great giveaway over there guys. You can learn more about him, his business, his podcast, his book, and all things that are going to help you be a better investor, make more money, save and keep more money, pay less in taxes, be prepared to pay these taxes, all kinds of great stuff. So David thanks again for coming on. One more time guys that's simplecfosolutions.com, check it out. David, thanks for coming on the show, as always it's great to network with you and connect with you and learn from you and I even picked up a couple of gold nuggets on this which is amazing 'cause I've read the book but it's really really great to always get that refresher. Love it.

David Richter: Thanks for having me and remember to make profit a habit in your business.

David Dodge: That's it guys, that's the quote right there: make profit a habit in your business, and with that we'll be signing off guys. Thanks for listening, don't forget you make your money when you buy, you get paid when you sell.

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